Posted by USAgentfan on June 29, 2006, 17:53:49, in reply to "Re: MOON KNIGHT #3: WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (SPOILERS)" Young Avengers if anything has been symbolised by the excellence of the writing and artwork, and not by any kind of gimmick. Also to my recollection the only people who seem to care a damn about the inclusion of homosexual characters in comics are the ones who decry and criticise their inclusion in the first place and then threaten to throw the title down never to read it again. Everyone else just says 'fair enough' and carries on reading a title that they were gonna read anyway, gay characters or not. There is no evidence to my knowledge that suggests that the inclusion of homosexual characters is a successful mass marketing tool, and even less when you consider that homosexuals themselves are only a very small fraction of any mass market. So who exactly is this 'tool' supposed to attract? Wiccan and Hulking were well written, well characterised and admirable characters in that title - their sexuality is irrelevent to their success or that of their universally excellent book. : Ive said my bit on homosexuality as a marketing tool above, and I dont think it washes. As for the Sunfire/Spiderwoman relationship - again it was subtly presented and well written without being tacky, insulting or patronising. If it had been a fleshy lesbian lovefest then I might have had issue with it. : Flatman is a spoof character from a spoof The millar run is another that will always be remembered for its general excellence rather than any gimmicks. Again, it doesnt appear to me that Electro making one fairly off the wall comment about possibly having gay relations in prison would be a very successful tool for selling comics. It may also suprise you that quite a few inmates engage in same sex relations on the inside, but that doesnt make them gay any more than a homosexual who has relations with the opposite sex because they are afraid of the reaction they may recieve if they come out. Having a character revealed to be gay in the 1980's whilst still subject to the comics code and in the middle of the AIDS crisis strikes me as extremely brave rather than anything else, especially as those times were far less tolerant and far less understanding and knowledgable about what was wrongly perceived to be 'the gay disease' Again, I'm not having it that this was in any way a successful marketing tool because Northstars and Alpha Flights careers were in the doldrums for years until his fairly recent addition to the X-men, and this was so long ago that it can hardly constitue a part of any current trend. By comparison, yes there should be far more minority characters in the MU. But even in comparison there are FAR more minority characters in the MU than there are gay characters. Again, I dont think that cynically including a black character to attract readers from what is a predominantly white audience is a sure fire sales winner. What I do think is that having a variety of cultural and ethnic backgrounds represented in a title is a responsible, mature, correct and sensitive thing to do that MAY attract a broader audience over a prolonged period of time. Aw, come on! You really think that ANYONE - let alone droves of fans - are going to pick up this title because of one gay French guy who isnt even the major character? Get real? You may find yourself talking to potential readers in your comic shop about the 'token gay' cynically included to grab their hard earned dollars, but I'll be highlighting the truely excellent art and storyline as the reasons they should fork out their cash. Anyone who thinks that Frenchie being gay is the marketing tool with this excellent title hasnt been reading it hard enough and has missed the entire point. : With that said, I can't wait to read the Cant say that i looked at the cowl that hard - I was too busy picking my jaw off the floor at the revalation that Frenchie is gay!!!! Next you'll be telling me that George Michael is gay!!! I'm kidding!!!!
86.141.116.146
:
: Hulking and Wiccan are both partners in the
: same title.
:
: Just means that it was done twice in the
: same title to be used as an even bigger
: tool.
A tool for what exactly? To attract the legions and legions of comic lovers, most of whom I suspect are hetrosexual males between the ages of 13 and 25? Doesnt fit the reading demographic of comics.
: So were Sunfire and Spiderwoman who are now
: both inactive (dead?) characters in another
: title that dealt with alternate universes
: anyway, so I'm not sure either of them will
: be appearing anytime soon - if ever again.
:
: Not the point being mad. So what if they
: only make one appearance. As I said, it is
: being used too much of as a tool.
:
: title and I doubt that he will ever play any
: role with any regularity.
:
: Ultimate Colossus and his partner (was it
: ultimate Angel?) are the only gay characters
: to date in the Ultimate Universe, so I
: reckon having two gay characters in an
: entire universe is pretty much fair game.
:
: Electro? When was it revealed that he was
: gay? Thats a new one on me.
:
: He has the hots for Spider-Man and learned
: something new about himself while in prison
: from MARVEL KNIGHTS: SPIDER-MAN.
: There is also Northstar - who was 'outted'
: as being gay years ago and so doesnt form
: part of the 'modern' trend that you seem to
: be suggesting. He is also a currently
: inactive and semi regular character.
:
: And when it was shown and hinted in ALPHA
: FLIGHT years ago, it wasn't made into a tool
: to get the title noticed. Now characters get
: made and reconned into being gay/lesbian
: characters just so the title will get
: noticed.
:
:
: Considering that minorities out number gay
: or lesbians in the world, there should be
: far more minority characters and yet there
: isn't. And yes I realize that the Ultimate
: universe remakes characters into minority
: characters, but that is also just used as a
: tool to get popular.
:
: Bottom line is that I thought Frenchies
: revelation was appropriate for the storyline
: and advanced the plot without being
: patronising or tacky.
:
: Bottom line is that we are seeing this far
: too much lately in comics just to get the
: comic noticed for having a gay/lesbian
: character in it.
:
: issue myself (most likely this weekend I can
: make it to the comic shop). So far I have
: enjoyed the build-up and back stories on
: Marc Spector brought into the title.
:
:
: And onto the real issue...This comic rocked!
: Everything about it rocked! Believable
: dialogue and characterisation, several
: massive revelations, the art - everything!
:
: The only think I have not liked about the
: art is Moon Knight's cowl. The pointed would
: hinder his vision since it reaches 3/4ths
: the way down his face. It should be up
: closer to his eyebrow level.
:
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