457th Bomb Group Message Board

"Better Quicker & Cheaper"

Posted by Bob Collis on 11/23/2007, 5:44 pm
195.93.21.71

Can anyone elaborate on the date and details of the mid-air collision in which the above named 457BG B-17 lost most of the tail gunner's position ?

TIA

BC

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Re: "Better Quicker & Cheaper"

Posted by Eric Brumby on 12/20/2007, 2:50 pm, in reply to ""Better Quicker & Cheaper""
90.203.160.143

Bob Collis, sorry for late reply (my pc has been down)T/SGT RICHARD BARNES has written a book of his experiences of his service with the 457 th in ww2, his book shows a photo on page 22 of the tail damage to BETTER QUICKER&CHEAPER it was damaged on the24 th march 1945, the mission was to Hopsten jet a/fld he doesn,t elaborate as to how the damage was done, I,m a little surprised that it was a mid air collision ,he doesnt even hint at that which one would have thought he would!,perhaps someone else can shed more light on what actualy happened!.Eric Brumby English 457 bg historian

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Re: "Better Quicker & Cheaper"

Posted by Eric Brumby on 12/20/2007, 6:22 pm, in reply to ""Better Quicker & Cheaper""
90.203.160.143

A/C 4339087 "BETTER QUICKER&CHEAPER" (749 SQD) Tail severly damaged on 24 march 1945 mission was to hopsten airfield(ME262),A photo of the tail of the aircraft is in the book by T/sgt R Barnes THE HIGHER SIDE OF WAR ,he was the flight engineer on the plane at the time, no exact details of how it got damaged, hope this is of some help. E Brumby English Historian 457 bg

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Re: "Better Quicker & Cheaper"

Posted by Willard Reese on 12/20/2007, 7:27 pm, in reply to "Re: "Better Quicker & Cheaper""
Message modified by board administrator 12/21/2007, 7:42 am

Is this the picture you saw?

Not all aircraft went down after a mid aid collision. We seem to have no other information on this website except what appears on the photo.
We do know this aircraft survived the war and returned to the US.

Hap

Link: http://www.457thbombgroup.org/Aircraft_pictures/43-39087_Better_Quicker_&_Cheaper_2__7-35a.html

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Re: "Better Quicker & Cheaper"

Posted by Alan Morton on 12/20/2007, 9:58 pm, in reply to "Re: "Better Quicker & Cheaper""
75.83.113.51

One of the most disconcerting features of flying Tail Gunner on a B-17 is the contortion the Gunner has to get into in order to operate the twin 50 caliber machine guns. The first item you notice as you crawl back to the Tail Gunner's position ... is a little wooden 1.5 inch thick object that resembles a bicycle seat without any padding. The seat is suspended about 12 inches off the floor. Naturally the Gunner will be facing backwards. He is an authority on knowing where the B-17 has been, but no idea where the A/C is going! His job is to protect the Vertical and Horizontal Stabilizer Assemblies from attacking German Fighter Aircraft trying chew off the entire Tail Assembly with cannon, rocket or machine gun fire. The attached photo depicts the damage to the Aircraft's twin 50 caliber guns. Had the Tail Gunner's legs been forward (instead of tucked under him), he'd be missing both of his legs and dead from loss of blood.

Now that bicycle seat! He's got to straddle over this seat and tuck his two legs under that wooden bicycle seat, with his rear end sitting down on the seat for most of the mission over enemy
territory, say about six hours, of a 10 hour mission. It's holy hell.

Every so often you'll see a photo of the Lead Aircraft Crew standing ten men deep at Missions end. The Tail Gunner position in the photo is filled by an Flying Officer Pilot rather than an enlisted man! Why? The Officers job is to Observe the Mission Bomber Formation and inform the Air Commander sitting in the Co-Pilot's seat in the same A/C ... of any irregularities during the flight.

Ho-Ho-Ho Folks ... Seasons Greetings everyone!

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